#7: Singapore Citizenship/ PR & Buying Properties | NOTG S2 E7 (ft. Kay Cheong, co-founder of The Immigration People)

Kay Cheong – 1
00:00:00,125 –> 00:00:04,583
– Within 30 minutes, he managed to negotiate it to $3.5K.

Kay Cheong – 2
00:00:04,583 –> 00:00:05,500
– That’s a huge drop.

Kay Cheong – 3
00:00:05,500 –> 00:00:07,166
– Yeah, that’s a very huge drop.

Melvin Lim – 4
00:00:15,708 –> 00:00:19,083
– Welcome back to our next episode of Sofa So Good.

Melvin Lim – 5
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Today, we have a very interesting guest.

Melvin Lim – 6
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She’s the co-founder of The Immigration People,

Melvin Lim – 7
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and she has a very interesting history as well.

Melvin Lim – 8
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Now, a mompreneur with a beautiful child.

Melvin Lim – 9
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And she has set up this company

Melvin Lim – 10
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with her other 2 partners in 2019,

Melvin Lim – 11
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because she was originally from Malaysia.

Melvin Lim – 12
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And guess what?

Melvin Lim – 13
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She has also flew with SQ for five years

Melvin Lim – 14
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before setting up her business in Singapore.

Melvin Lim – 15
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So welcome Kay, to Sofa So Good.

Kay Cheong – 16
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– Thanks Melvin, thanks for the invitation.

Melvin Lim – 17
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– Yeah, very good to have you here.

Melvin Lim – 18
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And I think the immigration topic is very related

Melvin Lim – 19
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to the property industry,

Melvin Lim – 20
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because usually the route that a lot of families will take

Melvin Lim – 21
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when they come to Singapore,

Melvin Lim – 22
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whether they’re starting work here

Melvin Lim – 23
00:01:04,875 –> 00:01:06,291
or doing their business here

Melvin Lim – 24
00:01:06,291 –> 00:01:08,125
or starting out a new business here,

Melvin Lim – 25
00:01:08,125 –> 00:01:10,333
they usually will enter into the route

Melvin Lim – 26
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of settling their citizenship and their PR status.

Melvin Lim – 27
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And then at the same time,

Melvin Lim – 28
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they will also hunt for their property as well.

Melvin Lim – 29
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So we want to invite you here today because

Melvin Lim – 30
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I think our listeners and our audience

Melvin Lim – 31
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will have a lot of key questions,

Melvin Lim – 32
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especially our audiences that are from overseas

Melvin Lim – 33
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that are planning to come to Singapore.

Melvin Lim – 34
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So I think it is our pleasure to have you here.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 35
00:01:33,375 –> 00:01:34,750
Thank you for coming. – Thanks, Melvin.

Melvin Lim – 36
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– So I wanna understand about,

Melvin Lim – 37
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why did you set up The Immigration People?

Melvin Lim – 38
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What was your key passion?

Kay Cheong – 39
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– Actually, the reason why I set up The Immigration People

Kay Cheong – 40
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is that previously,

Kay Cheong – 41
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I was in the immigration industry as well.

Kay Cheong – 42
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So me and my now partner, we used to be ex-colleague.

Kay Cheong – 43
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So we found that, this industry itself is non-regulated.

Kay Cheong – 44
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So a lot of people actually make it too commercialise.

Kay Cheong – 45
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And for us, we want to be different

Kay Cheong – 46
00:02:03,708 –> 00:02:05,625
from a lot of our competitors out there.

Kay Cheong – 47
00:02:05,625 –> 00:02:07,500
So we set up The Immigration People.

Kay Cheong – 48
00:02:07,500 –> 00:02:10,500
I guess that we share a very similar value

Kay Cheong – 49
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as PropertyLimBrothers, which is,

Kay Cheong – 50
00:02:12,166 –> 00:02:14,833
we want to serve our clients with integrity.

Melvin Lim – 51
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– Right. – Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 52
00:02:15,750 –> 00:02:19,000
So I’m not sure if you have seen the news recently,

Kay Cheong – 53
00:02:19,000 –> 00:02:22,041
one of our competitors was featured on CNA

Kay Cheong – 54
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due to using false claims and all this,

Kay Cheong – 55
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because the industry is non-regulated.

Kay Cheong – 56
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So to be honest,

Kay Cheong – 57
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we want to really set a high standard in our industry.

Kay Cheong – 58
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So that’s why we set up The Immigration People.

Melvin Lim – 59
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– Right, great.

Melvin Lim – 60
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And what are some of the key services

Melvin Lim – 61
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that The Immigration People provide on a day-to-day basis?

Kay Cheong – 62
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– Actually, the type of services that we provide includes

Kay Cheong – 63
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Singapore PR citizenship applications.

Kay Cheong – 64
00:02:48,958 –> 00:02:51,000
We also do work passes as well,

Kay Cheong – 65
00:02:51,000 –> 00:02:53,666
such as employment pass, S pass.

Kay Cheong – 66
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And we also do all sorts of immigration passes

Kay Cheong – 67
00:02:56,291 –> 00:02:59,250
such as long-term visit pass, so on and so forth.

Melvin Lim – 68
00:02:59,250 –> 00:03:00,083
– Okay.

Melvin Lim – 69
00:03:00,083 –> 00:03:02,458
And just now you mentioned about

Melvin Lim – 70
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application for permanent residents.

Melvin Lim – 71
00:03:05,250 –> 00:03:08,125
Does that also entail the application

Melvin Lim – 72
00:03:08,125 –> 00:03:10,250
towards Singapore citizenship as well?

Kay Cheong – 73
00:03:10,250 –> 00:03:12,416
– Yes, we do, yeah, correct.

Melvin Lim – 74
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– And I think these two are definitely one of the key things

Melvin Lim – 75
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that we wanna understand a little bit more.

Kay Cheong – 76
00:03:16,583 –> 00:03:17,416
– Sure, sure.

Melvin Lim – 77
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– So maybe you can share with us,

Melvin Lim – 78
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in totality, on a month-to-month basis,

Melvin Lim – 79
00:03:23,458 –> 00:03:26,125
or maybe on an annual basis,

Melvin Lim – 80
00:03:26,125 –> 00:03:28,125
usually how many applications are there

Melvin Lim – 81
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for families or individuals that want to apply for PR?

Kay Cheong – 82
00:03:32,833 –> 00:03:33,666
– Okay.

Kay Cheong – 83
00:03:33,666 –> 00:03:36,375
Actually, normally on a per annum basis,

Kay Cheong – 84
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there are approximately 80K to 100K PR application filed.

Kay Cheong – 85
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It could be single applications,

Kay Cheong – 86
00:03:43,041 –> 00:03:45,208
it could be family applications.

Kay Cheong – 87
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The exact percentage remains unknown.

Kay Cheong – 88
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ICA never publish this data.

Kay Cheong – 89
00:03:51,958 –> 00:03:54,250
And meanwhile, for citizenship applications,

Kay Cheong – 90
00:03:54,250 –> 00:03:58,500
it’s approximately about 50K to 60K applications.

Kay Cheong – 91
00:03:58,500 –> 00:04:03,833
And actually the government only approves about 32K for PR.

Kay Cheong – 92
00:04:03,833 –> 00:04:06,541
and 22K for citizenship.

Melvin Lim – 93
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– Every year?

Kay Cheong – 94
00:04:07,375 –> 00:04:08,208
– Every year.

Melvin Lim – 95
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– So 32K, 22K.

Melvin Lim – 96
00:04:09,875 –> 00:04:12,958
That’s like the rough magic number, year-to-year basis.

Kay Cheong – 97
00:04:12,958 –> 00:04:13,791
– Yeah, right.

Kay Cheong – 98
00:04:13,791 –> 00:04:15,333
That’s the quota that we always talk about.

Melvin Lim – 99
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– Right.

Melvin Lim – 100
00:04:16,166 –> 00:04:20,000
So has this trend been on an increasing quota trend,

Melvin Lim – 101
00:04:20,000 –> 00:04:23,083
or decreasing quota trend over the past 5 to 10 years?

Kay Cheong – 102
00:04:23,083 –> 00:04:25,583
– Actually, it has been going up.

Kay Cheong – 103
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But on a pretty steady slope, but not really a very steep slope.

Kay Cheong – 104
00:04:29,333 –> 00:04:31,833
However, last year we have observed that

Kay Cheong – 105
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there’s a dip in the number of PR and citizenship approvals.

Kay Cheong – 106
00:04:35,875 –> 00:04:39,791
And it gives our clients a misconception

Kay Cheong – 107
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that government is not giving out

Kay Cheong – 108
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PR and citizenship status anymore,

Kay Cheong – 109
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because they are decreasing the quota.

Kay Cheong – 110
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Actually, that’s not the case.

Kay Cheong – 111
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To be honest,

Kay Cheong – 112
00:04:48,625 –> 00:04:51,541
the reason why there are lesser people getting approvals

Kay Cheong – 113
00:04:51,541 –> 00:04:55,208
is because of travel restrictions during COVID.

Kay Cheong – 114
00:04:55,208 –> 00:04:57,833
A lot of people are unable to travel back to Singapore

Kay Cheong – 115
00:04:57,833 –> 00:04:59,875
to complete the final step

Kay Cheong – 116
00:04:59,875 –> 00:05:02,500
for PR and citizenship formalities,

Kay Cheong – 117
00:05:02,500 –> 00:05:05,333
which will require you to go down to ICA itself.

Melvin Lim – 118
00:05:05,333 –> 00:05:06,166
– Right.

Melvin Lim – 119
00:05:06,166 –> 00:05:07,333
So you have to physically go down to ICA.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 120
00:05:07,333 –> 00:05:08,958
– Yes, correct. – On the final step.

Kay Cheong – 121
00:05:08,958 –> 00:05:09,875
– Yes, correct.

Kay Cheong – 122
00:05:09,875 –> 00:05:13,625
So I actually did a few in-principle approval extensions

Kay Cheong – 123
00:05:13,625 –> 00:05:15,958
for some of my clients who were stuck overseas,

Kay Cheong – 124
00:05:15,958 –> 00:05:17,791
they’re unable to travel back.

Kay Cheong – 125
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So we helped them to write into ICA to extend.

Kay Cheong – 126
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So overall, actually it has been going up slope.

Kay Cheong – 127
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In fact, the government has intention

Kay Cheong – 128
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to increase the population.

Kay Cheong – 129
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Yeah, but right now it’s going down actually.

Kay Cheong – 130
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So it’s something that the government

Kay Cheong – 131
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is very concerned about.

Melvin Lim – 132
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– Right, okay.

Melvin Lim – 133
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So maybe let us start off with the application process

Melvin Lim – 134
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for getting a Singapore PR status.

Melvin Lim – 135
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I think a lot of our audience would be very interested

Melvin Lim – 136
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to find out how to increase their chances

Melvin Lim – 137
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of getting a higher success rate of getting a PR.

Melvin Lim – 138
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So maybe let’s start off with the current so-called work status

Melvin Lim – 139
00:05:54,500 –> 00:05:55,708
that a person might have.

Melvin Lim – 140
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Because there’s like a work permit status,

Melvin Lim – 141
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there’s S pass status, there’s EP status.

Melvin Lim – 142
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Do these few different statuses affect your success rate

Melvin Lim – 143
00:06:04,583 –> 00:06:06,125
of getting a PR?

Melvin Lim – 144
00:06:06,125 –> 00:06:06,958
That’s number one.

Melvin Lim – 145
00:06:06,958 –> 00:06:10,583
Number two is that, how long do you need to be in Singapore

Melvin Lim – 146
00:06:10,583 –> 00:06:14,125
as a working individual, to have a higher chance

Melvin Lim – 147
00:06:14,125 –> 00:06:16,666
to get a success rate for PR?

Melvin Lim – 148
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Number three is that,

Melvin Lim – 149
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does the amount of income that you earn

Melvin Lim – 150
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play a factor in all these things?

Kay Cheong – 151
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– Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 152
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Now, first thing is the different types of passes.

Kay Cheong – 153
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There’s a reason why it’s called Work Permit,

Kay Cheong – 154
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S Pass and Employment Pass,

Kay Cheong – 155
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because it’s catered for different groups of people.

Kay Cheong – 156
00:06:32,791 –> 00:06:36,291
Now for Work Permit, there’s no salary requirement.

Kay Cheong – 157
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So it often caters for, example, you know,

Kay Cheong – 158
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workers in the construction industry.

Kay Cheong – 159
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With lower pay, right.

Kay Cheong – 160
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For Work Permit, you cannot apply for PR with your own merit.

Kay Cheong – 161
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So you cannot apply yourself,

Kay Cheong – 162
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unless you’re married to a Singaporean or PR,

Kay Cheong – 163
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or maybe your spouse is a S pass or EP holder,

Kay Cheong – 164
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then your spouse can be a main applicant

Kay Cheong – 165
00:06:57,708 –> 00:07:00,083
and tagging you along in the application.

Melvin Lim – 166
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– [Melvin] Mm, okay.

Kay Cheong – 167
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– Now second is S Pass.

Kay Cheong – 168
00:07:02,958 –> 00:07:05,916
So S Pass is for mid-skills workers,

Kay Cheong – 169
00:07:05,916 –> 00:07:08,625
in the construction, shipping industry.

Kay Cheong – 170
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So normally, they will have a decent qualification,

Kay Cheong – 171
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like maybe just a diploma.

Kay Cheong – 172
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But not tertiary qualification.

Kay Cheong – 173
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And the salary requirement is $2.5K.

Kay Cheong – 174
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And for EP, it’s catered for PMETs, we call them,

Kay Cheong – 175
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professional, manager, executive and technicians, right.

Kay Cheong – 176
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So you must have a tertiary qualification.

Kay Cheong – 177
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And the salary requirement recently has increased, okay.

Kay Cheong – 178
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to actually $4.5K if you’re in the financial industry.

Kay Cheong – 179
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But if you’re not in the financial industry

Kay Cheong – 180
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it will be slightly lower.

Kay Cheong – 181
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But this is just a guideline.

Kay Cheong – 182
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Because if you go up to MOM website,

Kay Cheong – 183
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if you play with the self-assessment tools,

Kay Cheong – 184
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you’ll understand that actually,

Kay Cheong – 185
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the requirement has increased a lot.

Kay Cheong – 186
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So for a client who has more experience, yeah.

Kay Cheong – 187
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And because of their age is slightly older,

Kay Cheong – 188
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they probably need to have about $8K

Kay Cheong – 189
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to get an employment pass.

Kay Cheong – 190
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So I would say that the chances are definitely different.

Kay Cheong – 191
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For S Pass, maybe because of lower salary contributions,

Kay Cheong – 192
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and probably because they are not in the right industry,

Kay Cheong – 193
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so it does affect their chances of getting an approval.

Melvin Lim – 194
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– So does this mean that so-called individuals

Melvin Lim – 195
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that is in the employment pass category

Melvin Lim – 196
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will have a higher chance of getting a PR?

Kay Cheong – 197
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– Yes, you’re right.

Kay Cheong – 198
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But not because of the pass itself,

Kay Cheong – 199
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but because of their salary, the industry they’re in,

Kay Cheong – 200
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their qualification.

Kay Cheong – 201
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That makes a difference. – Okay.

Melvin Lim – 202
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– How about age group, does their age group matter?

Kay Cheong – 203
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– [Kay] Yes.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 204
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– Yes as well. – Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 205
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Because the prime working age in Singapore

Kay Cheong – 206
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is between 25 to 54 years old.

Kay Cheong – 207
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So if you’re above 54 years old,

Kay Cheong – 208
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then I would say that the chances will be slightly lower.

Kay Cheong – 209
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However, it doesn’t mean that you have no chance.

Kay Cheong – 210
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Because if you’re slightly older,

Kay Cheong – 211
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but you have very high contributions,

Kay Cheong – 212
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in terms of your economic contributions,

Kay Cheong – 213
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you still stand a chance.

Melvin Lim – 214
00:09:04,833 –> 00:09:06,000
– Right.

Melvin Lim – 215
00:09:06,000 –> 00:09:09,000
So it is actually a whole combination of factors,

Melvin Lim – 216
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like your salary, the amount of tax that you contribute.

Kay Cheong – 217
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– Yes, and maybe length of stay in Singapore,

Kay Cheong – 218
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and which industry you are in.

Melvin Lim – 219
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– Right, okay.

Melvin Lim – 220
00:09:17,000 –> 00:09:20,791
How about the fact that,

Melvin Lim – 221
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if let’s say, in terms of your family status.

Melvin Lim – 222
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So if let’s say you are married to a Singaporean,

Melvin Lim – 223
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or you’re married to a PR, does that increase your chances?

Kay Cheong – 224
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– Of course it does, because your status is different.

Kay Cheong – 225
00:09:34,875 –> 00:09:37,375
You’re a spouse of a Singaporean and PR.

Kay Cheong – 226
00:09:37,375 –> 00:09:39,083
Actually, there are different ways

Kay Cheong – 227
00:09:39,083 –> 00:09:41,333
that you can apply for a Singapore PR.

Kay Cheong – 228
00:09:41,333 –> 00:09:44,875
And one of the ways is through the sponsored scheme.

Kay Cheong – 229
00:09:44,875 –> 00:09:47,458
So you will apply in a different category

Kay Cheong – 230
00:09:47,458 –> 00:09:50,166
comparing with those who are applying using their work passes

Kay Cheong – 231
00:09:50,166 –> 00:09:52,375
such as employment pass.

Melvin Lim – 232
00:09:52,375 –> 00:09:53,208
– Can you can share a little bit more

Melvin Lim – 233
00:09:53,208 –> 00:09:54,291
about the sponsored scheme?

Kay Cheong – 234
00:09:54,291 –> 00:09:55,750
– Mm, sponsored scheme, right,

Kay Cheong – 235
00:09:55,750 –> 00:09:59,208
if let’s say you’re a spouse of a Singaporean or PR,

Kay Cheong – 236
00:09:59,208 –> 00:10:02,833
or you’re an unmarried child below 21 years old,

Kay Cheong – 237
00:10:02,833 –> 00:10:04,291
of a Singaporean and PR,

Kay Cheong – 238
00:10:04,291 –> 00:10:07,833
you can actually apply for Singapore PR status too.

Kay Cheong – 239
00:10:07,833 –> 00:10:09,125
And the things that they’re gonna look at

Kay Cheong – 240
00:10:09,125 –> 00:10:10,541
will be slightly different,

Kay Cheong – 241
00:10:10,541 –> 00:10:13,416
because they’re gonna look at the sponsor profile more.

Kay Cheong – 242
00:10:13,416 –> 00:10:15,833
Yeah, because some of them are housewives,

Kay Cheong – 243
00:10:15,833 –> 00:10:17,166
they’re not working, right.

Kay Cheong – 244
00:10:17,166 –> 00:10:19,583
So ICA is gonna evaluate the sponsor profile.

Kay Cheong – 245
00:10:19,583 –> 00:10:21,500
They’re gonna see if the sponsor

Kay Cheong – 246
00:10:21,500 –> 00:10:25,666
has a strong financial ability to actually support.

Kay Cheong – 247
00:10:25,666 –> 00:10:30,083
So they’re gonna see the spouse’s contributions as well.

Melvin Lim – 248
00:10:30,083 –> 00:10:32,041
– Right, so they’ll look at your family nucleus.

Kay Cheong – 249
00:10:32,041 –> 00:10:32,875
– Yes.

Melvin Lim – 250
00:10:32,875 –> 00:10:33,833
– Right, understand.

Melvin Lim – 251
00:10:33,833 –> 00:10:38,041
And usually among all these factors,

Melvin Lim – 252
00:10:38,041 –> 00:10:40,875
let’s say example, somebody is in Singapore

Melvin Lim – 253
00:10:40,875 –> 00:10:44,125
for a period of time,

Melvin Lim – 254
00:10:44,125 –> 00:10:45,375
and they’re holding an EP status.

Melvin Lim – 255
00:10:45,375 –> 00:10:49,791
They’re in the PMET industries.

Melvin Lim – 256
00:10:49,791 –> 00:10:52,083
Somebody that is of the same status

Melvin Lim – 257
00:10:52,083 –> 00:10:54,250
that has been in Singapore for one year,

Melvin Lim – 258
00:10:54,250 –> 00:10:55,791
not married, individual,

Melvin Lim – 259
00:10:55,791 –> 00:10:59,916
versus somebody that is at the same status, also EP status,

Melvin Lim – 260
00:10:59,916 –> 00:11:02,750
for three years, which one has a higher chance?

Kay Cheong – 261
00:11:02,750 –> 00:11:03,708
– Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 262
00:11:03,708 –> 00:11:06,000
Actually of course, if you’re staying in Singapore longer,

Kay Cheong – 263
00:11:06,000 –> 00:11:08,333
you’ll stand a slightly higher chance.

Kay Cheong – 264
00:11:08,333 –> 00:11:10,666
But however, I did mention one thing that

Kay Cheong – 265
00:11:10,666 –> 00:11:13,166
ICA is gonna look at it holistically.

Kay Cheong – 266
00:11:13,166 –> 00:11:15,291
Yeah, so they’re also going to see,

Kay Cheong – 267
00:11:15,291 –> 00:11:17,333
are you married or single.

Kay Cheong – 268
00:11:17,333 –> 00:11:20,666
If you’re married, it would be better, yeah?

Kay Cheong – 269
00:11:20,666 –> 00:11:24,916
Because the fact that if you have a child,

Kay Cheong – 270
00:11:24,916 –> 00:11:25,791
it would be even better,

Kay Cheong – 271
00:11:25,791 –> 00:11:28,166
because our total fertility rate in Singapore

Kay Cheong – 272
00:11:28,166 –> 00:11:30,208
is on a down slope.

Kay Cheong – 273
00:11:30,208 –> 00:11:31,041
Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 274
00:11:31,041 –> 00:11:34,250
And the latest number is at 1.10.

Kay Cheong – 275
00:11:34,250 –> 00:11:37,041
And for Chinese and Indians,

Kay Cheong – 276
00:11:37,041 –> 00:11:39,500
the fertility rate dropped below one.

Kay Cheong – 277
00:11:39,500 –> 00:11:41,250
So which means that one Chinese woman

Kay Cheong – 278
00:11:41,250 –> 00:11:43,583
not necessarily has one kid in Singapore.

Kay Cheong – 279
00:11:43,583 –> 00:11:45,208
So this is something that the government

Kay Cheong – 280
00:11:45,208 –> 00:11:47,541
is quite concern about.

Kay Cheong – 281
00:11:47,541 –> 00:11:50,541
So that’s why, they actually have campaign

Kay Cheong – 282
00:11:50,541 –> 00:11:51,916
to talk about fertility,

Kay Cheong – 283
00:11:51,916 –> 00:11:54,333
talk to your doctor if you have fertility issue,

Kay Cheong – 284
00:11:54,333 –> 00:11:55,541
things like that.

Kay Cheong – 285
00:11:55,541 –> 00:11:57,000
So this is what the government is doing

Kay Cheong – 286
00:11:57,000 –> 00:11:59,750
to try to promote people to have more babies.

Kay Cheong – 287
00:11:59,750 –> 00:12:02,291
Apparently Singaporeans are good in many ways,

Kay Cheong – 288
00:12:02,291 –> 00:12:05,208
making money, but not making babies.

Kay Cheong – 289
00:12:05,208 –> 00:12:07,041
(chuckling)

Kay Cheong – 290
00:12:07,041 –> 00:12:09,666
So the government is gonna look at a lot of factors.

Kay Cheong – 291
00:12:09,666 –> 00:12:14,000
So I would say that I have successfully helped people

Kay Cheong – 292
00:12:14,000 –> 00:12:16,708
who have been in Singapore for just one year

Kay Cheong – 293
00:12:16,708 –> 00:12:18,541
to get PR approved as well.

Kay Cheong – 294
00:12:18,541 –> 00:12:20,875
So if let’s say the length of stay is short,

Kay Cheong – 295
00:12:20,875 –> 00:12:23,375
but for the rest of the factors, if they are quite good at it,

Kay Cheong – 296
00:12:23,375 –> 00:12:25,750
they still can make up to their profile.

Melvin Lim – 297
00:12:25,750 –> 00:12:26,958
– Right.

Melvin Lim – 298
00:12:26,958 –> 00:12:29,416
So coming back to this point,

Melvin Lim – 299
00:12:29,416 –> 00:12:32,250
just when we were chatting before we started filming,

Melvin Lim – 300
00:12:32,250 –> 00:12:37,333
was that you mentioned that the chances of getting a PR,

Melvin Lim – 301
00:12:37,333 –> 00:12:40,250
actually the best chance is at the first application.

Kay Cheong – 302
00:12:40,250 –> 00:12:41,250
– Yes, you’re right.

Melvin Lim – 303
00:12:41,250 –> 00:12:43,000
– Compared to, let’s say a second,

Melvin Lim – 304
00:12:43,000 –> 00:12:44,958
and third and fourth application.

Melvin Lim – 305
00:12:44,958 –> 00:12:48,791
So going back to that same example,

Melvin Lim – 306
00:12:48,791 –> 00:12:51,625
if somebody were to seek your advice.

Melvin Lim – 307
00:12:51,625 –> 00:12:55,458
They’re single, not married, EP.

Melvin Lim – 308
00:12:55,458 –> 00:12:58,041
Should they submit the application

Melvin Lim – 309
00:12:58,041 –> 00:12:59,791
after working in Singapore for one year?

Melvin Lim – 310
00:12:59,791 –> 00:13:02,541
Or should they work longer, then submit?

Melvin Lim – 311
00:13:02,541 –> 00:13:04,000
Which one has a higher chance?

Melvin Lim – 312
00:13:04,000 –> 00:13:05,916
Or they should just try?

Melvin Lim – 313
00:13:05,916 –> 00:13:07,458
What is your advice?

Kay Cheong – 314
00:13:07,458 –> 00:13:10,083
– My advice is that

Kay Cheong – 315
00:13:10,083 –> 00:13:12,916
they should try after at least one year in Singapore.

Kay Cheong – 316
00:13:12,916 –> 00:13:15,916
Although on stated in ICA website, black and white is

Kay Cheong – 317
00:13:15,916 –> 00:13:18,708
you only need to submit your six month’s payslip,

Kay Cheong – 318
00:13:18,708 –> 00:13:20,750
and then you can apply for PR.

Kay Cheong – 319
00:13:20,750 –> 00:13:22,500
Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 320
00:13:22,500 –> 00:13:23,333
So some of my clients,

Kay Cheong – 321
00:13:23,333 –> 00:13:25,166
they come to me after 6 months of being in Singapore.

Kay Cheong – 322
00:13:25,166 –> 00:13:29,875
But my advice to them is that, perhaps you should

Kay Cheong – 323
00:13:29,875 –> 00:13:32,416
at least have one year tax record in Singapore.

Kay Cheong – 324
00:13:32,416 –> 00:13:33,916
And then you apply for PR.

Kay Cheong – 325
00:13:33,916 –> 00:13:37,291
However, this advice I would say is different,

Kay Cheong – 326
00:13:37,291 –> 00:13:38,458
case-to-case basis.

Kay Cheong – 327
00:13:38,458 –> 00:13:42,000
So that’s why one very important step that we always do

Kay Cheong – 328
00:13:42,000 –> 00:13:43,500
before we even take in the case

Kay Cheong – 329
00:13:43,500 –> 00:13:46,708
is to have a complimentary consultation with our client.

Kay Cheong – 330
00:13:46,708 –> 00:13:48,708
Yeah, so during the consultation,

Kay Cheong – 331
00:13:48,708 –> 00:13:51,000
we will ask them a lot of questions,

Kay Cheong – 332
00:13:51,000 –> 00:13:53,083
like which company they’re working for,

Kay Cheong – 333
00:13:53,083 –> 00:13:55,041
how much is their salary,

Kay Cheong – 334
00:13:55,041 –> 00:13:57,125
because we want to see economic contribution.

Kay Cheong – 335
00:13:57,125 –> 00:13:59,250
How long they’ve been living here, their age.

Kay Cheong – 336
00:13:59,250 –> 00:14:01,375
And then we will be able to propose to them

Kay Cheong – 337
00:14:01,375 –> 00:14:03,416
when is a good time to file.

Kay Cheong – 338
00:14:03,416 –> 00:14:05,666
So, for your question actually,

Kay Cheong – 339
00:14:05,666 –> 00:14:08,458
it really depends on a lot of factors.

Melvin Lim – 340
00:14:08,458 –> 00:14:10,000
– Right, right.

Melvin Lim – 341
00:14:10,000 –> 00:14:12,625
Thanks, I think there’s a lot of clarity

Melvin Lim – 342
00:14:12,625 –> 00:14:14,291
regarding the PR application.

Melvin Lim – 343
00:14:14,291 –> 00:14:16,375
I think our audience will appreciate that a lot.

Melvin Lim – 344
00:14:16,375 –> 00:14:20,083
So I think the second very important one is that

Melvin Lim – 345
00:14:20,083 –> 00:14:23,833
after being a permanent resident for some time,

Melvin Lim – 346
00:14:23,833 –> 00:14:27,166
when would be the right time to apply for citizenship?

Melvin Lim – 347
00:14:27,166 –> 00:14:31,666
if one person or a family wants to go towards that route.

Kay Cheong – 348
00:14:31,666 –> 00:14:32,500
– Okay.

Kay Cheong – 349
00:14:32,500 –> 00:14:35,208
Actually, same black and white,

Kay Cheong – 350
00:14:35,208 –> 00:14:36,500
black and white on ICA website,

Kay Cheong – 351
00:14:36,500 –> 00:14:38,500
it’s always two years PR,

Kay Cheong – 352
00:14:38,500 –> 00:14:42,000
you can actually apply for Singapore citizenship.

Kay Cheong – 353
00:14:42,000 –> 00:14:44,125
But based on my experience,

Kay Cheong – 354
00:14:44,125 –> 00:14:48,208
we know that government would like to see your commitment.

Kay Cheong – 355
00:14:48,208 –> 00:14:50,500
So actually, it would be better if let’s say

Kay Cheong – 356
00:14:50,500 –> 00:14:51,791
you clock in 5 years,

Kay Cheong – 357
00:14:51,791 –> 00:14:56,000
you do your first renewal of your REP.

Kay Cheong – 358
00:14:56,000 –> 00:14:56,958
And then you apply.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 359
00:14:56,958 –> 00:14:57,916
– Okay. – Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 360
00:14:57,916 –> 00:14:59,750
But of course, this is also, like I mentioned,

Kay Cheong – 361
00:14:59,750 –> 00:15:01,083
case-to-case basis.

Kay Cheong – 362
00:15:01,083 –> 00:15:02,958
Because I have personally seen

Kay Cheong – 363
00:15:02,958 –> 00:15:07,000
some very committed PR candidates with excellent profiles.

Kay Cheong – 364
00:15:07,000 –> 00:15:09,500
They try to file before 5 years

Kay Cheong – 365
00:15:09,500 –> 00:15:11,083
and they can get approval as well.

Melvin Lim – 366
00:15:11,083 –> 00:15:12,458
– Okay.

Melvin Lim – 367
00:15:12,458 –> 00:15:15,666
And how long is the application status?

Melvin Lim – 368
00:15:15,666 –> 00:15:18,791
Like for somebody who wants to apply for citizenship

Melvin Lim – 369
00:15:18,791 –> 00:15:21,875
until they get a result, whether it is approved or rejected,

Melvin Lim – 370
00:15:21,875 –> 00:15:23,833
usually how long does the process last?

Kay Cheong – 371
00:15:23,833 –> 00:15:24,791
– Okay.

Kay Cheong – 372
00:15:24,791 –> 00:15:26,375
You’re talking about citizenship?

Kay Cheong – 373
00:15:26,375 –> 00:15:29,458
Yeah, then it will be between 1 to 2 years.

Melvin Lim – 374
00:15:29,458 –> 00:15:31,208
– Oh, 1 to 2 years, wow!

Kay Cheong – 375
00:15:31,208 –> 00:15:32,250
– Yeah, correct.

Kay Cheong – 376
00:15:32,250 –> 00:15:34,625
So this is the common timeline that we have seen.

Melvin Lim – 377
00:15:34,625 –> 00:15:36,041
– Wow, (chuckling) okay.

Melvin Lim – 378
00:15:36,041 –> 00:15:39,916
So how about backtracking to PR application?

Melvin Lim – 379
00:15:39,916 –> 00:15:41,333
How long does that process take?

Kay Cheong – 380
00:15:41,333 –> 00:15:44,458
– PR application is between 4 months to 9 months.

Melvin Lim – 381
00:15:44,458 –> 00:15:45,500
– [Melvin] Ah, okay, so it’s faster.

Kay Cheong – 382
00:15:45,500 –> 00:15:47,375
– Slightly shorter, yeah.

Kay Cheong – 383
00:15:47,375 –> 00:15:52,625
Because for citizenship, on their website, on ICA website,

Kay Cheong – 384
00:15:52,625 –> 00:15:54,500
for citizenship application,

Kay Cheong – 385
00:15:54,500 –> 00:15:57,750
they are asking you additional documents

Kay Cheong – 386
00:15:57,750 –> 00:16:01,166
that you want to submit to support your application.

Kay Cheong – 387
00:16:01,166 –> 00:16:03,583
So they encourage you to actually put in additional things.

Kay Cheong – 388
00:16:03,583 –> 00:16:07,250
Because to be honest, giving a passport to you, right,

Kay Cheong – 389
00:16:07,250 –> 00:16:09,250
they’re gonna be very careful.

Kay Cheong – 390
00:16:09,250 –> 00:16:11,333
So when they ask you for additional documentation,

Kay Cheong – 391
00:16:11,333 –> 00:16:14,083
then of course, the review process becomes longer.

Kay Cheong – 392
00:16:14,083 –> 00:16:15,583
Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 393
00:16:15,583 –> 00:16:17,083
Yes, it’s 1 to 2 years,

Kay Cheong – 394
00:16:17,083 –> 00:16:19,291
but more often than not, it’s about 1 year.

Melvin Lim – 395
00:16:19,291 –> 00:16:20,125
– Okay.

Melvin Lim – 396
00:16:20,125 –> 00:16:24,250
But that means somebody will have to wait for

Melvin Lim – 397
00:16:24,250 –> 00:16:27,166
1 and a half years to hear the result.

Kay Cheong – 398
00:16:27,166 –> 00:16:28,125
– Yes, you’re right.

Kay Cheong – 399
00:16:28,125 –> 00:16:30,666
In fact, I just filed my citizenship application

Kay Cheong – 400
00:16:30,666 –> 00:16:31,500
two months back.

Kay Cheong – 401
00:16:31,500 –> 00:16:33,791
I’m still anxiously waiting.

Melvin Lim – 402
00:16:33,791 –> 00:16:35,000
– (chuckling) Wow, okay.

Melvin Lim – 403
00:16:35,000 –> 00:16:35,833
Right.

Melvin Lim – 404
00:16:35,833 –> 00:16:40,458
And if let’s say somebody is being rejected

Melvin Lim – 405
00:16:40,458 –> 00:16:43,291
on the application of a Singapore citizenship,

Melvin Lim – 406
00:16:43,291 –> 00:16:45,500
how long do they have to wait to reapply?

Melvin Lim – 407
00:16:45,500 –> 00:16:46,916
What is the cooling period?

Kay Cheong – 408
00:16:46,916 –> 00:16:48,791
– Okay, actually, there’s a cooling period

Kay Cheong – 409
00:16:48,791 –> 00:16:50,666
for both PR and citizenship applications,

Kay Cheong – 410
00:16:50,666 –> 00:16:52,291
which is 6 months.

Kay Cheong – 411
00:16:52,291 –> 00:16:53,291
Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 412
00:16:53,291 –> 00:16:57,333
It’s nowhere to be found on the ICA website.

Kay Cheong – 413
00:16:57,333 –> 00:17:00,166
But as we are in the industry for quite some time,

Kay Cheong – 414
00:17:00,166 –> 00:17:03,000
we understand that ICA do not like applicants

Kay Cheong – 415
00:17:03,000 –> 00:17:06,666
to keep filing an application without any profile change.

Kay Cheong – 416
00:17:06,666 –> 00:17:07,875
So that’s why they would prefer you

Kay Cheong – 417
00:17:07,875 –> 00:17:10,500
to have a cooling period of six months.

Kay Cheong – 418
00:17:10,500 –> 00:17:12,708
What they’re expecting in this six months

Kay Cheong – 419
00:17:12,708 –> 00:17:15,208
is for you to have some development.

Melvin Lim – 420
00:17:15,208 –> 00:17:16,041
– Okay.

Kay Cheong – 421
00:17:16,041 –> 00:17:17,125
– Maybe some career development,

Kay Cheong – 422
00:17:17,125 –> 00:17:19,416
you’ve gotten a promotion and increment.

Kay Cheong – 423
00:17:19,416 –> 00:17:21,166
Then with this kind of profile change,

Kay Cheong – 424
00:17:21,166 –> 00:17:22,875
you can actually reapply again.

Melvin Lim – 425
00:17:22,875 –> 00:17:23,708
– Okay.

Melvin Lim – 426
00:17:23,708 –> 00:17:24,541
So profile change, I will assume

Melvin Lim – 427
00:17:24,541 –> 00:17:27,833
that is either your career, is either your marital status.

Kay Cheong – 428
00:17:27,833 –> 00:17:28,916
– [Kay] Yes. (chuckles)

Kay Cheong – 429
00:17:28,916 –> 00:17:30,916
– Whether you have kids or not, and things like that.

Kay Cheong – 430
00:17:30,916 –> 00:17:34,583
– And probably, gotten a higher qualification,

Kay Cheong – 431
00:17:34,583 –> 00:17:36,875
some personal certifications.

Kay Cheong – 432
00:17:36,875 –> 00:17:37,875
This will help you.

Melvin Lim – 433
00:17:37,875 –> 00:17:38,708
– Okay.

Melvin Lim – 434
00:17:38,708 –> 00:17:39,666
So going back to age.

Melvin Lim – 435
00:17:39,666 –> 00:17:42,791
Just now you mentioned that there’s an age category

Melvin Lim – 436
00:17:42,791 –> 00:17:44,750
that the government is looking at.

Melvin Lim – 437
00:17:44,750 –> 00:17:47,250
And that is between 20 plus to about…

Kay Cheong – 438
00:17:47,250 –> 00:17:50,750
– That’s the prime working age, 25 to 54 years old.

Melvin Lim – 439
00:17:50,750 –> 00:17:53,916
– Okay, what is the oldest applicant that you have seen

Melvin Lim – 440
00:17:53,916 –> 00:17:57,875
that have gotten approval for PR and citizenship?

Kay Cheong – 441
00:17:57,875 –> 00:17:58,833
– Okay.

Kay Cheong – 442
00:17:58,833 –> 00:18:01,250
Interestingly, the oldest client that I’ve seen

Kay Cheong – 443
00:18:01,250 –> 00:18:03,875
that gotten PR approved is 80 years old.

Melvin Lim – 444
00:18:03,875 –> 00:18:04,708
– Wow.

Melvin Lim – 445
00:18:04,708 –> 00:18:06,541
Okay, is it because their kids are here,

Melvin Lim – 446
00:18:06,541 –> 00:18:08,291
and they’re already PRs and Singaporeans?

Kay Cheong – 447
00:18:08,291 –> 00:18:10,833
– Of course, because of many factors.

Kay Cheong – 448
00:18:10,833 –> 00:18:14,958
Because of his contribution, his industry is quite niche,

Kay Cheong – 449
00:18:14,958 –> 00:18:17,166
actually, the industry that he’s in.

Kay Cheong – 450
00:18:17,166 –> 00:18:19,416
So that’s why he still can get approval

Kay Cheong – 451
00:18:19,416 –> 00:18:22,500
at such an old age.

Kay Cheong – 452
00:18:22,500 –> 00:18:23,375
Yeah, correct.

Kay Cheong – 453
00:18:23,375 –> 00:18:26,958
Meanwhile for citizenship, interestingly,

Kay Cheong – 454
00:18:26,958 –> 00:18:29,666
most of my client are 40 years old and above.

Melvin Lim – 455
00:18:29,666 –> 00:18:30,583
– 40 years old and above.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 456
00:18:30,583 –> 00:18:31,666
– Yeah, correct. – Okay.

Kay Cheong – 457
00:18:31,666 –> 00:18:35,041
– If you take a look at the data from ICA’s website,

Kay Cheong – 458
00:18:35,041 –> 00:18:36,666
for PR and citizenship,

Kay Cheong – 459
00:18:36,666 –> 00:18:40,958
there’s a contrast in a sense that

Kay Cheong – 460
00:18:40,958 –> 00:18:43,916
for citizenship, the number of approvals above 40 years old

Kay Cheong – 461
00:18:43,916 –> 00:18:46,083
is still quite high, the approval.

Kay Cheong – 462
00:18:46,083 –> 00:18:48,958
But for PR, is not that high.

Kay Cheong – 463
00:18:48,958 –> 00:18:52,250
The reason is because for citizenship, more often or not,

Kay Cheong – 464
00:18:52,250 –> 00:18:55,000
people spend a very long time in Singapore.

Kay Cheong – 465
00:18:55,000 –> 00:18:57,583
Then they think about applying for a citizenship.

Kay Cheong – 466
00:18:57,583 –> 00:19:01,125
Because Singapore citizenship, right,

Kay Cheong – 467
00:19:01,125 –> 00:19:04,458
the government doesn’t allow you to hold dual citizenship.

Kay Cheong – 468
00:19:04,458 –> 00:19:06,291
So that’s why it takes a longer time

Kay Cheong – 469
00:19:06,291 –> 00:19:08,541
for people to finally make a decision

Kay Cheong – 470
00:19:08,541 –> 00:19:09,708
to change their passport.

Melvin Lim – 471
00:19:09,708 –> 00:19:10,541
– I see.

Melvin Lim – 472
00:19:10,541 –> 00:19:11,833
That’s why they’re usually above 40.

Kay Cheong – 473
00:19:11,833 –> 00:19:12,666
– Yes, correct.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 474
00:19:12,666 –> 00:19:13,791
– I see. – Usually above 40.

Melvin Lim – 475
00:19:13,791 –> 00:19:15,958
– I see, okay.

Melvin Lim – 476
00:19:15,958 –> 00:19:17,500
Next question, okay.

Melvin Lim – 477
00:19:17,500 –> 00:19:21,791
Does already owning a property as a foreigner

Melvin Lim – 478
00:19:21,791 –> 00:19:25,250
or a Singapore PR affect your chances

Melvin Lim – 479
00:19:25,250 –> 00:19:27,708
of getting a PR or a citizenship?

Melvin Lim – 480
00:19:27,708 –> 00:19:30,750
Does it help to get a higher chance?

Kay Cheong – 481
00:19:30,750 –> 00:19:31,750
– Yes, of course.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 482
00:19:31,750 –> 00:19:33,291
– Okay. – Yeah, of course.

Kay Cheong – 483
00:19:33,291 –> 00:19:35,500
Owning a property here, of course it will help you.

Kay Cheong – 484
00:19:35,500 –> 00:19:39,083
Because actually, it’s extremely important.

Kay Cheong – 485
00:19:39,083 –> 00:19:42,291
ICA will give PR status to those

Kay Cheong – 486
00:19:42,291 –> 00:19:45,791
who think that they have a long-term plan in Singapore.

Kay Cheong – 487
00:19:45,791 –> 00:19:48,458
Is very committed to further senior in Singapore,

Kay Cheong – 488
00:19:48,458 –> 00:19:51,666
and potentially maybe applying for citizenship,

Kay Cheong – 489
00:19:51,666 –> 00:19:52,500
just like me.

Kay Cheong – 490
00:19:52,500 –> 00:19:53,666
Right, okay?

Kay Cheong – 491
00:19:53,666 –> 00:19:55,750
So they’re looking for these kind of candidates.

Kay Cheong – 492
00:19:55,750 –> 00:19:58,750
So more often or not, a lot of time,

Kay Cheong – 493
00:19:58,750 –> 00:20:01,958
we advise clients to show their intention

Kay Cheong – 494
00:20:01,958 –> 00:20:03,083
in their application.

Kay Cheong – 495
00:20:03,083 –> 00:20:05,833
You have to show that you have high intention

Kay Cheong – 496
00:20:05,833 –> 00:20:07,250
to live here for a very long time.

Kay Cheong – 497
00:20:07,250 –> 00:20:10,875
That’s why you will have to do some volunteering works.

Kay Cheong – 498
00:20:10,875 –> 00:20:13,041
You have to have some investment here,

Kay Cheong – 499
00:20:13,041 –> 00:20:16,375
maybe some retirement plan in Singapore.

Kay Cheong – 500
00:20:16,375 –> 00:20:18,916
And of course, if you have a house here,

Kay Cheong – 501
00:20:18,916 –> 00:20:20,708
it is one of the best ways to tell them

Kay Cheong – 502
00:20:20,708 –> 00:20:23,000
that you’re very committed.

Kay Cheong – 503
00:20:23,000 –> 00:20:26,125
That you already purchase your dream home in Singapore.

Melvin Lim – 504
00:20:26,125 –> 00:20:26,958
– Right.

Melvin Lim – 505
00:20:26,958 –> 00:20:30,916
So intentions can be met via property purchase.

Melvin Lim – 506
00:20:30,916 –> 00:20:32,833
And just like you mentioned, doing volunteer work,

Melvin Lim – 507
00:20:32,833 –> 00:20:36,875
is it more towards like, for your children’s education?

Melvin Lim – 508
00:20:36,875 –> 00:20:38,250
Like, you’re getting volunteers,

Melvin Lim – 509
00:20:38,250 –> 00:20:41,666
or is it like charitable organisation and stuff?

Kay Cheong – 510
00:20:41,666 –> 00:20:43,375
– Charitable organisation.

Kay Cheong – 511
00:20:43,375 –> 00:20:46,875
So we will actually guide the clients, okay,

Kay Cheong – 512
00:20:46,875 –> 00:20:49,416
to do some volunteering works.

Kay Cheong – 513
00:20:49,416 –> 00:20:52,958
Clocking in certain hours on a monthly basis.

Kay Cheong – 514
00:20:52,958 –> 00:20:54,083
To show that they’re committed

Kay Cheong – 515
00:20:54,083 –> 00:20:56,208
and wants to give back to the society.

Melvin Lim – 516
00:20:56,208 –> 00:20:57,041
– Ah, okay.

Melvin Lim – 517
00:20:57,041 –> 00:20:58,208
There was also another thing that you mentioned

Melvin Lim – 518
00:20:58,208 –> 00:20:59,625
after the volunteering.

Melvin Lim – 519
00:20:59,625 –> 00:21:01,583
What was that factor?

Kay Cheong – 520
00:21:01,583 –> 00:21:04,458
– You can have some investment insurance in Singapore.

Melvin Lim – 521
00:21:04,458 –> 00:21:07,458
– Right, that means you purchase local insurance investment

Melvin Lim – 522
00:21:07,458 –> 00:21:08,291
and stuff like that.

Melvin Lim – 523
00:21:08,291 –> 00:21:09,291
Ah okay, that’s pretty interesting.

Melvin Lim – 524
00:21:09,291 –> 00:21:12,375
What other ways are you able to show

Melvin Lim – 525
00:21:12,375 –> 00:21:13,750
your long term-commitment plans?

Melvin Lim – 526
00:21:13,750 –> 00:21:16,791
Other than investment, charity and property.

Kay Cheong – 527
00:21:16,791 –> 00:21:18,458
– Marrying a Singaporean.

528
00:21:18,458 –> 00:21:19,583
(laughter)

Melvin Lim – 529
00:21:19,583 –> 00:21:20,416
– Okay.

Melvin Lim – 530
00:21:20,416 –> 00:21:21,750
All right, okay.

Melvin Lim – 531
00:21:21,750 –> 00:21:26,083
So marital status, okay, I understand.

Melvin Lim – 532
00:21:26,083 –> 00:21:29,750
And how about, let’s say example,

Melvin Lim – 533
00:21:29,750 –> 00:21:31,666
just now, you mentioned about renewing

Melvin Lim – 534
00:21:31,666 –> 00:21:33,708
your permanent residence status.

Melvin Lim – 535
00:21:33,708 –> 00:21:37,750
So how many years, once you are,

Melvin Lim – 536
00:21:37,750 –> 00:21:41,291
let’s say a first-time PR, do you have to renew it?

Kay Cheong – 537
00:21:41,291 –> 00:21:42,583
– Yes, yeah.

Kay Cheong – 538
00:21:42,583 –> 00:21:46,291
Actually, the PR status, okay,

Kay Cheong – 539
00:21:46,291 –> 00:21:49,000
there’s a reason why it’s called permanent residence.

Kay Cheong – 540
00:21:49,000 –> 00:21:50,708
‘Cause it’s actually permanent.

Kay Cheong – 541
00:21:50,708 –> 00:21:53,416
But the tricky part is that

Kay Cheong – 542
00:21:53,416 –> 00:21:56,500
the 5 years renewal of re-entry permit.

Kay Cheong – 543
00:21:56,500 –> 00:21:57,750
The re-entry permit allows you

Kay Cheong – 544
00:21:57,750 –> 00:21:59,375
to come in and out of Singapore.

Kay Cheong – 545
00:21:59,375 –> 00:22:01,375
You have to renew it every 5 years.

Kay Cheong – 546
00:22:01,375 –> 00:22:04,458
And more often or not, what ICA is gonna look at is,

Kay Cheong – 547
00:22:04,458 –> 00:22:08,000
are you committing your hours here in Singapore?

Kay Cheong – 548
00:22:08,000 –> 00:22:09,708
Out of these 5 years,

Kay Cheong – 549
00:22:09,708 –> 00:22:12,166
do you have at least maybe 2.5 years

Kay Cheong – 550
00:22:12,166 –> 00:22:14,375
working and living in Singapore?

Kay Cheong – 551
00:22:14,375 –> 00:22:17,791
And the renewal year is very critical.

Kay Cheong – 552
00:22:17,791 –> 00:22:21,041
Basically, the renewal process is pretty simple.

Kay Cheong – 553
00:22:21,041 –> 00:22:23,458
They’re gonna ask you 2 important questions.

Kay Cheong – 554
00:22:23,458 –> 00:22:25,708
Are you currently residing in Singapore?

Kay Cheong – 555
00:22:25,708 –> 00:22:27,875
Second question is, are you currently working in Singapore?

Kay Cheong – 556
00:22:27,875 –> 00:22:30,708
And they will ask for your employment details.

Kay Cheong – 557
00:22:30,708 –> 00:22:32,875
So if let’s say your client,

Kay Cheong – 558
00:22:32,875 –> 00:22:35,125
not living here, not working here,

Kay Cheong – 559
00:22:35,125 –> 00:22:38,291
they will have trouble renewing their REP.

Melvin Lim – 560
00:22:38,291 –> 00:22:39,375
– Ah, okay.

Melvin Lim – 561
00:22:39,375 –> 00:22:43,291
So if let’s say somebody failed at the renewal

Melvin Lim – 562
00:22:43,291 –> 00:22:45,500
and they got their PR revoked.

Melvin Lim – 563
00:22:45,500 –> 00:22:47,208
What are their chances of reapplying

Melvin Lim – 564
00:22:47,208 –> 00:22:48,833
and getting it approved again?

Melvin Lim – 565
00:22:48,833 –> 00:22:51,750
Is it extremely low, or like, how does it work?

Kay Cheong – 566
00:22:51,750 –> 00:22:53,208
– It is quite low actually.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 567
00:22:53,208 –> 00:22:55,333
– Okay. – (laughs) It is quite low.

Melvin Lim – 568
00:22:55,333 –> 00:22:57,041
– Okay, so it’s important to hold onto to your PR.

Kay Cheong – 569
00:22:57,041 –> 00:22:57,916
– Mm, correct.

Kay Cheong – 570
00:22:57,916 –> 00:22:59,833
Because the Singapore government takes this very seriously.

Kay Cheong – 571
00:22:59,833 –> 00:23:01,000
Singapore is not a place

Kay Cheong – 572
00:23:01,000 –> 00:23:04,166
that you would like to come in and out easily.

Kay Cheong – 573
00:23:04,166 –> 00:23:07,041
Then now, today you don’t feel like it,

Kay Cheong – 574
00:23:07,041 –> 00:23:08,291
then you give up your status.

Kay Cheong – 575
00:23:08,291 –> 00:23:09,958
It’s very hard to get it back.

Melvin Lim – 576
00:23:09,958 –> 00:23:10,791
– Right.

Melvin Lim – 577
00:23:10,791 –> 00:23:14,541
So how many clients do you meet and service

Melvin Lim – 578
00:23:14,541 –> 00:23:16,375
on a monthly basis?

Kay Cheong – 579
00:23:16,375 –> 00:23:17,750
– There’s a lot actually.

Kay Cheong – 580
00:23:17,750 –> 00:23:21,000
Okay, actually what I can tell you is that

Kay Cheong – 581
00:23:21,000 –> 00:23:24,708
in the whole team, we have a team of 11 people,

Kay Cheong – 582
00:23:24,708 –> 00:23:26,666
in The Immigration People.

Kay Cheong – 583
00:23:26,666 –> 00:23:29,625
And the number of cases that we are handling

Kay Cheong – 584
00:23:29,625 –> 00:23:33,208
on a monthly basis is approximately 50 to 80 cases

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 585
00:23:33,208 –> 00:23:34,250
– Wow, right. – Yeah.

Kay Cheong – 586
00:23:34,250 –> 00:23:37,750
But it includes PR, work passes.

Kay Cheong – 587
00:23:37,750 –> 00:23:39,041
Nowadays, we are handling

Kay Cheong – 588
00:23:39,041 –> 00:23:41,208
a lot more work pass application as well,

Kay Cheong – 589
00:23:41,208 –> 00:23:44,000
due to the fact that the regulation changes a lot

Kay Cheong – 590
00:23:44,000 –> 00:23:45,125
in the recent years.

Kay Cheong – 591
00:23:45,125 –> 00:23:48,083
And a lot of HR, they kind of find that

Kay Cheong – 592
00:23:48,083 –> 00:23:51,041
they cannot cope with all the changes.

Kay Cheong – 593
00:23:51,041 –> 00:23:53,333
So a lot of EP got rejected,

Kay Cheong – 594
00:23:53,333 –> 00:23:55,708
so they start to look for professional help.

Melvin Lim – 595
00:23:55,708 –> 00:23:56,750
– Right.

Melvin Lim – 596
00:23:56,750 –> 00:23:59,000
So let’s say if any of our audience

Melvin Lim – 597
00:23:59,000 –> 00:24:00,375
would like to seek your help

Melvin Lim – 598
00:24:00,375 –> 00:24:04,541
to apply for any work passes or employment passes,

Melvin Lim – 599
00:24:04,541 –> 00:24:07,291
or maybe application for PR and citizenship,

Melvin Lim – 600
00:24:07,291 –> 00:24:10,458
usually, how can they find about your fee rates?

Kay Cheong – 601
00:24:10,458 –> 00:24:13,166
– Oh, that’s a very interesting question.

Kay Cheong – 602
00:24:13,166 –> 00:24:16,083
Because we are basically the only firm in the industry

Kay Cheong – 603
00:24:16,083 –> 00:24:18,708
that publishes our pricing on the website.

Melvin Lim – 604
00:24:18,708 –> 00:24:19,750
– Ah, okay,

Melvin Lim – 605
00:24:19,750 –> 00:24:21,458
so they can just go to The Immigration People website.

Kay Cheong – 606
00:24:21,458 –> 00:24:22,416
– Yes, correct.

Kay Cheong – 607
00:24:22,416 –> 00:24:25,541
They can just go to www.tip.com.sg,

Kay Cheong – 608
00:24:25,541 –> 00:24:27,250
and then there’s a pricing tab.

Kay Cheong – 609
00:24:27,250 –> 00:24:30,750
So like I mentioned earlier, this industry is non-regulated.

Kay Cheong – 610
00:24:30,750 –> 00:24:34,708
So there are people who are charging our clients

Kay Cheong – 611
00:24:34,708 –> 00:24:37,250
according to their pay grade.

Kay Cheong – 612
00:24:37,250 –> 00:24:40,083
So I literally have a client got a quotation of 10K

Kay Cheong – 613
00:24:40,083 –> 00:24:42,500
from this particular immigration firm.

Kay Cheong – 614
00:24:42,500 –> 00:24:48,750
And within 30 minutes, he managed to negotiate it to $3.5K.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 615
00:24:48,750 –> 00:24:50,541
– Wow, okay. – Yeah.

Melvin Lim/Kay Cheong – 616
00:24:50,541 –> 00:24:51,375
– That’s a huge drop.

Kay Cheong – 617
00:24:51,375 –> 00:24:53,750
– Yeah, that’s a very huge drop.

Kay Cheong – 618
00:24:53,750 –> 00:24:56,083
Unlike, the property industry which is highly-regulated.

Kay Cheong – 619
00:24:56,083 –> 00:24:58,458
You have to take an exam, but not our industry.

Melvin Lim – 620
00:24:58,458 –> 00:24:59,291
– Right.

Melvin Lim – 621
00:24:59,291 –> 00:25:01,041
So you publish your fee rates based on the type of service

Melvin Lim – 622
00:25:01,041 –> 00:25:02,833
that you want to apply for.

Kay Cheong – 623
00:25:02,833 –> 00:25:03,708
– Yes, you’re right. – Okay.

Melvin Lim – 624
00:25:03,708 –> 00:25:07,125
And usually how does the engagement process work?

Melvin Lim – 625
00:25:07,125 –> 00:25:08,125
Maybe you can share with our audience,

Melvin Lim – 626
00:25:08,125 –> 00:25:11,333
like, would there be a dedicated consultant for their case?

Melvin Lim – 627
00:25:11,333 –> 00:25:14,416
And usually,

Melvin Lim – 628
00:25:14,416 –> 00:25:17,250
is it for the whole entire application process?

Melvin Lim – 629
00:25:17,250 –> 00:25:18,666
Maybe you can share a little bit more.

Kay Cheong – 630
00:25:18,666 –> 00:25:19,500
– Sure.

Kay Cheong – 631
00:25:19,500 –> 00:25:23,125
Normally, for those who are inquiring with us,

Kay Cheong – 632
00:25:23,125 –> 00:25:25,666
they show interest to apply for PR and citizenship.

Kay Cheong – 633
00:25:25,666 –> 00:25:29,541
They have to come to our complimentary consultation.

Kay Cheong – 634
00:25:29,541 –> 00:25:32,000
We will ask them a lot of questions about their profile,

Kay Cheong – 635
00:25:32,000 –> 00:25:33,833
and then we’ll give them some suggestions

Kay Cheong – 636
00:25:33,833 –> 00:25:36,375
on what they need to do to build up their profile.

Kay Cheong – 637
00:25:36,375 –> 00:25:37,833
So we normally work with the clients

Kay Cheong – 638
00:25:37,833 –> 00:25:40,666
for a period of over 3 to 4 months time.

Kay Cheong – 639
00:25:40,666 –> 00:25:43,208
To focus on building up their profile.

Kay Cheong – 640
00:25:43,208 –> 00:25:47,708
You know, sending them to volunteering work,

Kay Cheong – 641
00:25:47,708 –> 00:25:48,916
so on and so forth.

Kay Cheong – 642
00:25:48,916 –> 00:25:52,916
And helping them to draft a cover letter, testimonials,

Kay Cheong – 643
00:25:52,916 –> 00:25:56,250
to present a better profile to ICA.

Kay Cheong – 644
00:25:56,250 –> 00:25:57,708
So after 3 to 4 months,

Kay Cheong – 645
00:25:57,708 –> 00:25:59,458
we will file the application.

Kay Cheong – 646
00:25:59,458 –> 00:26:01,916
And throughout the process, there will be a consultant,

Kay Cheong – 647
00:26:01,916 –> 00:26:05,000
and there will be a documents controller,

Kay Cheong – 648
00:26:05,000 –> 00:26:08,125
who is in charge of documentation.

Kay Cheong – 649
00:26:08,125 –> 00:26:09,125
Forms, you know,

Kay Cheong – 650
00:26:09,125 –> 00:26:12,291
and then they would review their documents.

Kay Cheong – 651
00:26:12,291 –> 00:26:15,041
And there will be a professional copywriter as well.

Kay Cheong – 652
00:26:15,041 –> 00:26:17,500
Yeah, so there will be 3 people working on a case.

Kay Cheong – 653
00:26:17,500 –> 00:26:20,333
But the client will only need to talk to 2 of us,

Kay Cheong – 654
00:26:20,333 –> 00:26:23,083
which is a consultant and a documents controller.

Melvin Lim – 655
00:26:23,083 –> 00:26:24,375
– Right, wonderful.

Melvin Lim – 656
00:26:24,375 –> 00:26:25,375
Thanks for sharing.

Kay Cheong – 657
00:26:25,375 –> 00:26:26,208
– No problem.

Melvin Lim – 658
00:26:26,208 –> 00:26:27,041
– I think definitely,

Melvin Lim – 659
00:26:27,041 –> 00:26:30,208
everybody I think will understand a little bit more.

Melvin Lim – 660
00:26:30,208 –> 00:26:32,708
And in fact, I think a lot more about the entire process,

Melvin Lim – 661
00:26:32,708 –> 00:26:34,333
and I think most importantly is

Melvin Lim – 662
00:26:34,333 –> 00:26:37,000
how to increase the chances of getting a PR status

Melvin Lim – 663
00:26:37,000 –> 00:26:38,250
and citizenship status,

Melvin Lim – 664
00:26:38,250 –> 00:26:40,625
because that relates to of course,

Melvin Lim – 665
00:26:40,625 –> 00:26:42,333
purchasing of properties in Singapore,

Melvin Lim – 666
00:26:42,333 –> 00:26:44,625
in terms of the additional buyer stamp duty and all that.

Melvin Lim – 667
00:26:44,625 –> 00:26:47,208
So thank you Kay, for coming on Sofa So Good.

Melvin Lim – 668
00:26:47,208 –> 00:26:48,541
It’s been wonderful having you

Melvin Lim – 669
00:26:48,541 –> 00:26:49,666
and answering all these questions.

Melvin Lim – 670
00:26:49,666 –> 00:26:54,250
So do watch out for our next episode of Sofa So Good.

Melvin Lim – 671
00:26:54,250 –> 00:26:55,916
And today we have Kay,

Melvin Lim – 672
00:26:55,916 –> 00:26:58,000
the co-founder of The Immigration People,

Melvin Lim – 673
00:26:58,000 –> 00:26:59,875
and we’ll see you on the next round.

Melvin Lim – 674
00:26:59,875 –> 00:27:01,208
So in the meantime, take care.

Melvin Lim – 675
00:27:01,208 –> 00:27:02,041
Cheers.

Kay Cheong – 676
00:27:02,750 –> 00:27:03,291
– Bye.